My Wife, My Ex-Wife, and ME!
Imagine a groundbreaking podcast where your current wife and your ex-wife share a mic. In this captivating podcast, Denny takes center stage as he navigates conversations with Jamie, his ex-wife, and Amanda, his present wife, using nothing but a microphone to untangle the complexities of their intertwined lives. Together, they explore the challenges and triumphs of parenting, tackling sensitive subjects such as divorce, co-parenting, and the emotional journey of overcoming cancer while cheering on their shared daughter, Audrey. Throughout the episodes, our trio courageously confronts the realities of their relationships, discussing adoption, the dynamics of blended families, and the sometimes turbulent waters of step-parenting. This podcast invites listeners into an authentic dialogue about life and family, emphasizing the theme of "parenting without excuses." With humor, honesty, and heartfelt insight, Denny, Jamie, and Amanda offer a refreshing perspective on what it truly means to support one another as co-parents and navigate the complexities of modern family life.
My Wife, My Ex-Wife, and ME!
Part TWO of our Discussion With Nate and Courtney Boyer: Insights into Polyamorous and Monogamous Relationships
How do you navigate love when it takes non-traditional paths? This episode dives into the complexities of a polymono relationship with guests Courtney and Nate, who share their journey of love, vulnerability, and growth. Offering insights on emotional labor, communication, and societal perceptions of polyamory, they reveal how their unique dynamic has strengthened their bond.
• Discussion on the journey to non-monogamy
• Importance of open communication in relationships
• Navigating insecurities and emotional labor
• Dealing with societal stigma and online trolls
• Balancing multiple relationships during personal gatherings
• Insights on family acceptance of non-traditional lifestyles
• The significance of honest dialogue for relationship growth
Find Nate and Courtney here:
https://youtu.be/0v_DsKhMJyo?si=msKr_cn3PMgM9kUP
Courtney Boyer (@marriedmilfdiaries) | TikTok
Courtney Boyer Coaching | Facebook
Courtney Boyer (@marriedmilfdiaries) • Instagram photos and videos
I'm Amanda, the wife, and I'm Jams, the ex-wife, and I'm Brayden just the future.
Speaker 3:Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Denny Broins. I'm the only man dumb enough to get his wife and ex-wife in a studio to do a podcast. And here it is my wife, my ex-wife and me.
Speaker 2:That peace and happiness might be found there. You gave me hope, and now, now we have to say goodbye. Ouch, if there's any bitches in this room then there's something I gotta say.
Speaker 4:Say for all the fools who fell for the first girl who comes their way. I've been down that road and I'm back sitting on square one trying to pick myself up where I started from.
Speaker 3:My wife, my ex-wife and me starts now, starts right now. Welcome to this week's edition of my Wife, my Ex-Wife, and Me. So hey, if you're watching us on TikTok, welcome to the show. If you're watching us on YouTube, welcome to the show. Facebook, instagram X, formerly known as Twitter. Elon did not talk to me about that before he made that move. I would have advised him to leave it Twitter. I did not talk to me about that before he made that move. I would have advised him to leave it Twitter. I'm just saying but if you're watching us on those, a thank you for watching and tuning in. It's a rare Sunday afternoon podcast, which is OK, but you're also going to be confused Back and forth, because here's the deal. It's the magic of show business, right? And we are recording now, and we recorded one yesterday that I'm sure some of you were, or what day was it? It?
Speaker 1:wasn't yesterday. No, it was Friday, friday.
Speaker 3:And we recorded one Friday and it was live, but that's not what you're going to hear chronologically. So you will soon hear a podcast where Jamie took the controls. I did Jesus, take the wheel. Jams, take the wheel. That's what this one was. Matter of fact, I think that's what we'll title it. Jams, take the wheel, jams, take the wheel. Jams was the producer for the show. If you're looking right now at her lip you can't even see it. You can tell she didn't do a very good job because I had to fix things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you feel like you did? I feel like I did fine. I feel like I would have done better if um focus Pinky. I think I would have no.
Speaker 6:I think I would.
Speaker 1:I think I would have done better had I had they're not practiced sent. There wasn't so much pressure. I feel like there was just so much pressure because everybody was waiting for me to suck so bad I didn't wait for you to suck I thought you were going to do well?
Speaker 3:no, you didn't, because you had notes. I did have notes. I was proud of you. You were ready to go I said nothing.
Speaker 1:I wanted to say I had showed up yeah I, um, I didn't say anything. I really like there's things on there that I was like damn it, I didn't say that, damn it, I didn't say that.
Speaker 3:Well you'll get another chance, lorna. Hello, lorna, thank you for joining from youtube I can. Why am I watching?
Speaker 1:it.
Speaker 3:Give us a like, follow and share. I need everybody to. So, anyway, what we're going to talk about today is a follow up to last week's podcast. Hello, nezzy, welcome to the show. Today, lorna, we're going to be talking about polyamory once again, part two and a um, when one member is poly and the other one is not polymono. And we had and go try and find that google monopoly and all you get is monopoly.
Speaker 6:It drove me crazy trying to get information for this google thought you were not smart enough to know that those were. That was one word monopoly. Monopoly is all that came. Would you like the electronic version? Are you trying to play it live?
Speaker 3:so frustrating. So in a few minutes we're going to get to our guests who are courtney, and she brought her husband this time. I'm so excited, and I'm so excited I wouldn't be either. But I think through discussion and time and communication I think things usually can kind of come around. So we'll see. I want to see how that I can't shut up and get to it.
Speaker 3:You know what? I'm tired of talking to you already, so let me go ahead and introduce you to my left With the pink headphones on. That never looks at the screen. It's my ex-wife Jams you ruined everything you stupid bitch.
Speaker 5:You ruined everything you stupid, stupid bitch. You're just a lying little bitch who ruins?
Speaker 2:things and wants the world to burn bitch you're a stupid bitch and lose some weight.
Speaker 6:Say hello jams. I don't know. I think that was poetic timing. As it said, you ruin everything and she punches the microphone.
Speaker 1:You know it's what I do. How's your lip?
Speaker 3:it's good. You know it's what I do. How's your lip it's?
Speaker 1:good, it's healing.
Speaker 3:It's good. Is it supposed to look like that? Fuck you, I'm just asking the question. And they look great. It's going to look great. Is that how it's supposed to look now? No, was there a mistake made?
Speaker 1:No. No yes, um, I had it all gathered to one area in my lip. Um, you had what gathered to one area filler. You did this. No, I didn't do it. No, it's so like. So, when your filler can move, filler can move. You've got 72 hours, for the most part, for hillar to fully fart harden I'm sorry what I was going to say farden For filler to harden. Harden, yeah, and not move, but it can migrate, right. So you could end up with uneven lips, which is what I had.
Speaker 3:So I had to go back and so you just go in and massage your yips and move them apart.
Speaker 1:No, or do you just push it real hard?
Speaker 6:No, no, no, so he worked them out a little bit like this so there's another human being massaging your lips and then added some on this side, so it was all even why just the bottom?
Speaker 1:I did the top. The top was fine yeah she did the top too.
Speaker 3:Oh, top was good yeah, top was good why does the bottom look bigger than the top?
Speaker 1:that's supposed because I had that. I had it migrate to one area like I don't. I don't know like if I slept too soon or whatever, but it all migrated over here. So I had like this bump. So we had to work it out a little bit and then match it. Was it worth it? Yeah, I mean my lips look fucking good. I'm just saying they're gonna look better soon too I am looking up, ronaldo.
Speaker 3:Thank you for joining in the podcast I'm trying to look up. I'm paying attention to jams and her trials of her yips I don't understand so, yes, thank you, ronaldo, for being here. Thomas young, hello, welcome to the podcast. Hey, let's. Brayden's not here, so we're going to go straight to my beautiful wife. I need a fill, you need another one.
Speaker 6:It's for her nails now oh.
Speaker 3:It's my beautiful wife with her natural lips.
Speaker 2:Mandarin, I'm a bad bitch and I got bad anxiety. People call me rude because I ain't letting them try me Saying Bad bitch and I got bad anxiety. People call me rude because I ain't letting them try me Saying I'm a hoe because I'm in love with my body Issues but nobody I can talk to about it. They keep saying I should get help, but I don't even know what I need. They keep saying speak your truth and at the same time say they don't believe. Man, excuse me while I get into my feelings for a second, usually I keep it down, but today I got to tell it. How's it going over there, mandarin?
Speaker 6:Good, I will not sing anymore, because you yeah, you did.
Speaker 3:Because I turn it down when you're singing it. Uh-huh, you did it once, that's it. It's rude, that's all that's needed.
Speaker 6:I've done it more than once. It's rude. I have Only once effectively.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Once effectively.
Speaker 3:That's a story in my life. That's about all I do effectively.
Speaker 6:It's good for one time one.
Speaker 3:What's the toby keith?
Speaker 6:I mean, I don't know, you were for six times at least boy.
Speaker 1:Wow, there's some truth to that and that's where we went hey, you guys ready to bring in our guests?
Speaker 3:yes yeah, so ready for this, okay. Hey, by the way, if you guys that are watching ronaldo's keeping me in line and I appreciate it, good boy If you guys come up with any questions for our guests, then ask and we'll try and get those in. I think that'll be beneficial.
Speaker 1:So yeah, give us a question. Oh my God, come on. What's the problem? You are just so slow today.
Speaker 3:I'm not so slow. All right, here we go On the line with us this week, moving them to the top of the screen, where they belong, but I'm not putting myself at the bottom. It's Nate and Courtney. Hello, welcome to the show. Now Courtney's a pro. She's done several podcasts 100 plus. How many have you done, nate? How many podcasts have you been on?
Speaker 4:Zero, oh yay.
Speaker 3:Finally, finally. Is it because people don't care about your opinion, you think, or is it just we were the first to care about it?
Speaker 4:No, you guys were the first.
Speaker 5:The first to ask.
Speaker 3:Nobody's ever asked I told Courtney when we started this whole venture. I said, hey, we might not be the first, but we're going to be your favorite and this should be another one. That just notches that up. So, yeah, welcome back to the podcast this week. Now, for those of you that weren't here with us last week, the Boyers here live in Germany, so there's quite a time difference, so they're here kind of late. What time is it over there right now?
Speaker 5:Little after 8 pm.
Speaker 3:Little after 8. So thank you, guys, for taking the time to do that and being on the show with us. We really appreciate it and, of course, sharing your story. So let's kind of pick up where we left off.
Speaker 6:oh boy, we were all over the board. We were hopefully we can kind of keep it uh, not gonna happen no, it's not true.
Speaker 3:Not work but um. Courtney, you are an author. What tell us about your book?
Speaker 5:yes, so I've written. My first book is on women's sexuality, so it's called Not Tonight Honey, why Women Actually Don't Want Sex and what we Can Do About it. And my second book will be released this year and it's called Opened how Non-Monogamy Saved my Marriage and Me.
Speaker 3:How? Just a quick question on writing a book? Yeah, and I know we touched on this last week, but for the folks that didn't hear. I do want to write a book actually, but I could write one, oh boy.
Speaker 1:My Four Wives.
Speaker 6:So, but I do chapters. I like to read smut books, by the way.
Speaker 3:Are you?
Speaker 6:You do, yeah, I was going to ask and something told me you like smart books. To be fair, most women reading in their 30s, I think, are reading smart. Do you read or listen? Well, I have a whole bunch of kids and stuff to do, so I have to listen. I don't have time to sit down and read.
Speaker 2:So you pretty much just listen to porn.
Speaker 6:Yeah, like a lady. There's like a meme that says I don't watch porn, I listen to it or read it like a lady.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you how much fun it is to get in the car with her, and it jumps up on the pops up on the Bluetooth screen.
Speaker 6:And I have to be real careful what I'm trying to listen to it to my headphones and it accidentally connects to the Alexa in the house, yeah, and then our five-year-old daughter.
Speaker 3:Mommy, what's that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the smuttier the better.
Speaker 3:Yes, britney hello, britney, welcome to the show. I have all these smut books.
Speaker 6:I don't even know what to do with you people anyway, you're back to how do you about writing a book, her book? So yeah, when you're writing a book.
Speaker 3:It's how do you, how were you inspired to write the book and the book writing process I know you talked about using a ghostwriter and tell me how that process works and kind of the whole book writing experience. Can you just run that down for me real quick?
Speaker 5:Sure, I didn't use a ghostwriter, though. Oh, I thought you did. No, nope, it's all me Okay.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, where did I get that from? My goodness, I don't know you just make shit up all the time I must I. I know what I did now.
Speaker 6:Sorry about that. Yeah, anyway, tell us about the book Courtney.
Speaker 5:My first book.
Speaker 3:Yes, please.
Speaker 5:So one of the questions that I would get when I would speak cause I'm a relationship and sexuality expert A lot of times to women is two questions. They would ask me what's wrong with me and am I broken? Because they weren't feeling into sex, they weren't interested in their partner's sexual advances, and they were just really, really fed up with their whole sex life, and so I wanted to create a resource where they understood why they felt that way and then give them practical tools in order to tackle that topic.
Speaker 1:What is one of the main reasons? Like one is like that, you find more that men suck.
Speaker 5:I mean, women are just socialized to be like oh God, I don't even know where to start.
Speaker 5:Like women are just we're not brought up to embrace our sexuality. We're so much more easily controlled when we are disconnected from who we are as sexual beings, and so society, especially the patriarchy, tries to disconnect us from who we are, especially sexually, so that we can be competitive with other women instead of collaborative as a sisterhood, and also disconnected from things that bring us pleasure, because I believe that our pleasure is what draws us into our purpose, and that is all related to, you know, keeping us on the right path and in alignment.
Speaker 3:So on that. When I was a kid and even I mean up until in my thirties, forties I guess I I always felt a that's gonna sound horrible a certain amount of shame as it relates to sex. You know what I mean and you have to keep it very quiet, you, you have to, you can't talk about it.
Speaker 6:You um, well, I mean we're here in the midwest and which is still fairly religious. It's not the bible belt, but it's still. I even know in the town that I grew up in like it was a big thing when the girl you know gave up her virginity. Why didn't you save that till marriage? And a lot of shaming in that regard. Now, I grew up where it didn't matter what men or boys did, but we were still held to that kind of religious side of sexuality as girls.
Speaker 3:Well, I and I guess where I was headed with that and what I wanted to ask you, courtney, is you know, and we've joked about, pull my hair, choke me all that weird stuff. And look at amanda, like her eyebrows. Immediately she's like yeah, hey, and like I hear that more often than not. And it's how do you hear it more often than not? Just in people talking and jokes.
Speaker 3:And I mean, I'm in here with you two idiots, all of the time oh yeah, so that's where I hear most of it, but you know what I'm saying, do you? Is there a certain amount of shame that still goes along with it for women and, yes, not getting what they need. Do you feel like that's part of it?
Speaker 5:A hundred percent there's. I think there are two separate things, but yes, there is a significant amount of shame that women have still internalized when it comes to sex and sexuality, and then there's also women who are not getting their needs met.
Speaker 3:Okay, I saw one of your, your TikTok videos, where you were talking about one night stands and where you you said you know you're not a particular fan of one night stands and I'm going to paraphrase here. But you also said you're not against people that are, do you boo, kind of thing, but it's um, you know, the reason you were not, you're not for them, is because it's it's much more different for a woman to get what. You say that I think the reason you were not, you're not for them, is because it's it's much more different for a woman to get what'd you say that? I think the stat you gave was like 18%. Less than 20% of women can achieve that magic moment. And but the other side of that stat that that really surprised me was 90 to 95% of men on a one night stand. I would have thought that was closer to a hundred, if I'm being honest.
Speaker 5:Yeah, some men can't perform, you know, which is totally fine. It just depends and I don't like using the word perform, but that's how it's seen a lot of times and that's usually the language that they will use. And when you approach sex as performance-based versus pleasure-based, then that is the measurement.
Speaker 3:You know, climaxes, the measurement of yeah, interesting See, we started off on a very informative tone here, I like it. So do you want to start off with some questions you had from last week?
Speaker 1:James. So I know we talked about so your husband's monogamous and you're poly. I wanted to know the journey of how it went for Nate right.
Speaker 3:It is Nate.
Speaker 1:So, like that first time she came to you, you're eating dinner, anniversary dinner, anniversary dinner and then it's like what made you?
Speaker 3:Let's just drive that knife in a little further.
Speaker 1:Sorry, like what made you change your mind, like you were like okay, you know what, I think I can do this.
Speaker 3:It's a great question actually.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that is a great question. So, yeah, tim, actually, yeah, that is a great question. So yeah, so for those who don't know, three years ago, just about three years ago, at our 17th anniversary dinner, courtney basically asked for essentially an open relationship, um, and I basically lost it. So I did not handle it very well, to say the least. Um said some not nice things and was pretty angry.
Speaker 4:But you know, our journey now has been, you know, three years on, and I think that some of the things that came up were more my insecurities so issues I had from you know, wounds as a kid, you know and my own insecurities more than anything else. And then the other thing was just that over time we've sort of built up trust and have developed a framework that works for us. Now it doesn't necessarily work for everybody, you know, I think, um, but it's worked for us. And so it's been a process where I've kind of managed some of my own insecurities, um, through counseling and through other things we've done counseling together and then just the repeated pattern where, you know, my biggest fear initially was that basically Courtney was just going to replace me with like the newer, younger, better version.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:I think that's an insecurity that a lot of people may have. Um and so over time, as Courtney has dated men and been in relationships and yet still comes home to me and still enjoys coming home to me and wants to be home with me, that has just filled up such a level of respect and trust that it's helped out immensely Now.
Speaker 4:The journey has been ups and downs, but that's where we are now and it's just so much better. It's amazing. Our relationship is both I've worked on it myself and then we've worked on each other is just so great right now.
Speaker 3:So good so. So I guess, for what she intended in the question, we would call it successful then. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 4:yeah yeah, I think you know, not immediately, but yeah sure it was not overnight, not by any means.
Speaker 5:Yeah, how long do you think that?
Speaker 2:part took oh, two years, two years, oh wow, so you guys are really pretty young in the it's working in the acceptance phase.
Speaker 5:Yeah, interesting yeah I would say we would go through spurts where he would be like it's okay, but then like something would trigger it. Or like, for example, a year ago I was in a relationship with a guy and we, the whole time that I am in a relationship with somebody, nate is usually like super great, like he likes me having a partner knowing that I'm being treated well, there's security and safety and that there's kind of like predictability and routine. Like I went to go see my boyfriend every two to three weeks and I'd be gone and then I'd come back and all of that. And so when that relationship ended we were good. And then he got triggered a few weeks later when I started dating again and so it kind of like brought up a lot more insecurities again and so then like we'd have to work through it and then it would get better. And then, yeah, so it was kind of like brought up a lot more insecurities again and so then like we'd have to work through it and then it would get better.
Speaker 3:And then, yeah, so it was kind of a cycle for a while and I think this the last nine months or so it's been pretty solid OK so I was thinking about this the other day after we spoke last, and it's this is going to sound very judgmental of me, so I apologize when I am not judgmental to you, to maybe other listeners, because usually when you're looking at folks that are taking some sort of any alternative stance to the norm, it seems that you know they're lacking something socially.
Speaker 3:Just, this was my perception before. I want to be clear on that. It was my perception that you're lacking something socially or you want to stand out in some way or something like that. But in your case, you're both very well-rounded individuals, you're both very well educated, you both have spent time in a very professional environment and I won't speak to specifically what those are, unless you guys want to. But it makes me feel differently, which is why we do this podcast and talk to folks like you, because here we are, I've got these professional people that live a country, a whole world, half a world away.
Speaker 3:One country, yeah. And talking about an alternative lifestyle that you know, I've heard about but I don't know a lot about, and I would usually think I've never heard of it. Weirdos over there. They're just people that do this or do that.
Speaker 6:It's just a German thing. Yeah, and here you guys are. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So it's I, I think.
Speaker 6:I think to kind of piggyback off of that we were talking about after our last interview. We were talking about the emotional intelligence that goes into being able to process. You know you're talking about your insecurities and things like that, and I I don't think society is ready for that. I think that's that's kind of what you're saying is that you know the people we see, we dismiss them and maybe they have the emotional intelligence that we're missing and we're not really categorizing that. As we have a joke in our family. We have a son that says street smarts are not a real thing. You're either book smart or street smart. I think there's emotional smarts as well and that's not recognized. But to get to this where you guys can talk about your feelings and have ups and downs and still cycle back and work through them, it's incredible.
Speaker 3:I think that's the biggest difference and it's your relationship. You said it yourself and it's your relationship.
Speaker 6:You said it yourself, I wrote it down, nate.
Speaker 3:It works for us, yeah, so and at the risk of sounding everybody else can, who the fuck cares what everybody else thinks? If you guys are doing it and your marriage is just? Fine happy and you care and you're both okay with it. Sure, there are going to be ups and downs, but you know, give them the big finger and just move on with your life because you're sharing this. We've got somebody in the chat right now that you know said I don't know if they're just trolling or what they might have just trolled, I don't know.
Speaker 3:But people that don't understand or have no interest or energy to try and understand, they can't just pedal their bike on past Right. They got to stop and give you their thoughts.
Speaker 1:I want to get into. I want to get into all of that before we do yeah, long before. We've got a lot of stuff before, because I need to know nate, have you ever wanted to, um, go the other way, like also be polly, like I don't know how? What do you say?
Speaker 4:yeah, no, no, great question. So we've talked a lot about it and I think that in many ways that that would make it much easier for Courtney Because I would both understand, because I'd be living, you know, the uh, you know non-monogamous lifestyle, but also because I would have another partner that you know, if I, if Courtney's out or whatever, that I could just go hang out with that partner and I would understand her struggles in dating and I would understand. But you know, we've talked a lot about it and it is just not for me, I do not have the energy or the patience or the time to want to do that and it in no way like brings me, it doesn't't. The thought doesn't even bring me joy, or like would make me, it doesn't make me feel satisfied, or like I just have no excuse me, no desire okay to do that.
Speaker 4:but courtney has definitely made that as an option. She's, you know, but like if we wanted to do like double dates or something like that, but again, just no desire for me, like none whatsoever, and because we're doing so much better and just Right now in my life it's just not something I want to pursue. But she has given that option to me and I do think it would make things so much easier for Courtney.
Speaker 6:How do you guys Do you guys feel that that is? Each person individually has the emotional capacity for so much load and when you're in a relationship with someone, you are carrying part of their emotional load. And she had mentioned before that your, your first love was medicine because you're you're a doctor, correct?
Speaker 3:Oh, there goes that. Yeah, so there goes the anonymity I was talking about.
Speaker 6:I didn't really listen to what you were saying. Super sorry about that. He can cut it out too if we need to.
Speaker 3:Not the life part. I can't really listen to what you were saying.
Speaker 6:Super sorry about that. He can cut it out too if we need to. Not the live part, probably not Now you threw me off my question.
Speaker 2:Your first love.
Speaker 6:Your emotional? Do you think that is okay? I have the emotional bandwidth for my family as it is. It's now with Courtney and your, your children and your luck, joy, your work, and maybe that's why you don't have the space for somebody else. Do you think that's part of it or do you think people have different? You're just built differently ranges of how much they can carry and give at the same time yeah, no, again, great question.
Speaker 4:I think that from Courtney feels like this is part of who she is and and I don't have that. I do think that I've sort of settled into in my profession, like kind of in the area where I want to be, and it's kind of gotten into routine. I've done the same job for the last few years and so I think that if I wanted to make the time to pursue things, I could. I agree with that, but but I just don't. And again, I don't have the same desire that Courtney does with this and nor do I think it would fulfill me. So you know, the idea of just going on a dating app and turn the date, just have zero zero Sounds like torture.
Speaker 3:Hey, let me just go let me start here. Let me just start now and just start looking for some rejection out there.
Speaker 6:That'd be sounds like you know what I'd like to go and get my feelings hurt today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess that kind of leads into my next question. So with like even nate said you know it was my own insecurities, feeling like she was going to, you know, find a better version of me. Um, how do you, how do you not fall? How do you not okay? So, like you know, in the the early stages of a relationship, when you're just like all about the person and you just want to be with them all the time, how do you keep from like that kind of happening, like well, I've got to go back to you know my life kind of like? I mean, I know it's both your life. How do you balance?
Speaker 6:it as I think, what she's asking.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, I think for Courtney. I'll let her expand upon it, but I she she doesn't see it. So initially I think she saw it as an escape because we weren't doing, I think, real well in our relationship and so part of it was not just being the idea that she was non-monogamous, but also as an escape. And as we've done better, I think it's less so, but I'll let you. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 5:Were you, jamie? Jamie, were you asking me that about like, how do I manage, like the new relationship, energy and coming back home?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Just because you know, I like, I know, when I get into a relationship I just I'm Immersed, yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, I mean I think that it's hard. I have to really rein it in because I think for a variety of reasons, but you know, the one is really respecting Nate and I don't want to like feel like I'm rubbing it in his face or like, oh my gosh, like this is so amazing and so fun. I'm sure I talk a lot about the person that I'm, that I'm rubbing it in his face or like, oh my gosh, like this is so amazing and so fun. I'm sure I talk a lot about the person that I'm, that I care about and, um, I really like desire. Gosh, it's hard to explain.
Speaker 5:I think when you're in a monogamous relationship, we're really taught that like that other person is supposed to consume us, and what I'm looking for is somebody to really be a part of my life and not consume my life. So I'm in another thing. I'm really cautious in terms of like how open I am to like opening my heart and like letting that new relationship energy. I don't want to say I'm kind of pessimistic at this point. I would say protective and cautious.
Speaker 3:Okay, interesting. I would think you would have to be almost extra cautious because of your situation. Right, with everything you've got going on and you're still maintaining this life, you don't have room for a mistake with some wacko out there, right? Is that fair to say?
Speaker 5:Yes, a lot of it's like weeding out guys who just want to fuck me and guys who actually want to add value and like create something like meaningful and special, and so it's a lot of wasted energy on trying to filter those people out. And then, once I like filter those ones out, then it's like, okay, how compatible are we Like, how do we like mesh and what does that look like and where do you live? And so it's. It's a lot of it's like a puzzle. It feels like a lot of times like which parts move here and like are you willing to do you know here? And and then also finding men that are okay.
Speaker 5:It's like not just okay, like really on board with dating a married woman, like you're not you know there are throuples out there Like you're not dating Nate and I, but you can't ignore the fact that my family, my husband and my kids, are also part of the deal in a way, um, and that can be good or good or bad depending on how you look at it, and not a lot of men are actually prepared right to be a part of that yeah, I'm gonna tell you every time you speak and every time you start describing or explaining your feelings and thoughts, like my mind says shit, this sounds perfect it makes sense like this makes total sense and you could not handle another girl.
Speaker 6:I could not. You barely have the emotional bandwidth for me and all seven of my personalities people like what it, what it's really like.
Speaker 5:You know, like maybe I will at some point like when I start dating again, like because it is so consuming, that is the best way. It's energy consuming, time consuming. It's discouraging. Like you'll have really great conversations with a like with a guy and then, and then they'll totally disconnect from me the next day or they'll ghost me, or they'll be like yes, I can't wait to see you. Okay, let's meet Tuesday. Monday rolls around. I don't hear from them. I'm supposed to meet this guy tomorrow. Or my last relationship, okay, great, yes, I'm into you. This is perfect, it lines great. Like, yes, like I'm into you, this perfect, it lines up great. Oh, and then a huge wrench gets thrown into it Like well, we weren't expecting that. So then, like, what do you do? I mean it just it's. Are there great fun times? Yes, and are there really hard trying times?
Speaker 3:Which is why I think Nate says, yeah, keep me the hell out of that.
Speaker 2:I'm okay.
Speaker 5:He sees it Like he sees more of and I'm a lot more diligent than more people Like I have friends who are in the non-monogamous space and they're like you know whatever, and so they'll tolerate like conversations with just about anybody. I'm very decisive. I'm like look, if we're not like matched on, like these four or five things and you don't know what you want, like I'm not interested, it's not worth your time.
Speaker 5:You know what you're looking for and I do have the choices sometimes depending on where I'm at and what cities I'm in, but but like it's, it's a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so real quick. David Gale great name, also a great movie. He actually gave us a comment on here. He says I never understood it at first and was sending Courtney some harsh comments, but after doing some research and having conversations with Courtney I'm better informed and I'm no longer bigoted. That's a, that's a testament to you.
Speaker 5:Yeah that is.
Speaker 5:I would say harsh comments is an understatement. He has some uh, awful, awful things, like really awful. And he then finally, one day I don't know what happened I and I I am very tolerant to a point um of I want to engage discourse Like I want you, if you don't understand, like let's understand, let's learn and grow together, and that. And so he finally messaged, like private message me, and we I talked to him like literally every day, like he messages me every day. He's so encouraging, he's so protective of me, like I am grateful he's my friend, like I'm so grateful for him now because and he's really passionate when other trolls like attack me, he's very defensive, because he he really understands me and what I'm about and wants other people to see that too.
Speaker 3:That's great, and this is someone that started off a hater, so to speak.
Speaker 6:That's my biggest point in what's wrong with society is people look at someone and say you don't do the same things that I do, so there must be something wrong with you, instead of being able to have a conversation and say, hey, that's not, that's not for me, but you know it's okay for you and now I understand your side of things. I think growth comes from being able to talk to someone that you have Absolutely. I hate what you're doing. I think it's awful, and then grow from it. That's the best'm just going to blurt it in here. You guys have both said you know, this is who I am, this is the way I am. Do you consider being poly, a sexual identity just as there are? We have gay, we have pan, we have trans, we have all of the identities that are out there. Is this just another one that is kind of becoming more known?
Speaker 5:So I would do. You want to answer Okay? Um, so what I would say is that for some people, it is a relationship orientation, meaning that, like that's how they were born, just like you're gay, bisexual, transgender, there are some people who choose the behavior or the lifestyle of it. So they're not necessarily like they don't feel like this is who they are, but they identify with, maybe, the tenants of it, and so they're like, yeah, this feels good and I want to explore this, but it doesn't necessarily feel like it's at the core of who they are. So it. Some people will say, yep, it's an orientation, and other people will say, no, it's a lifestyle, it's a choice. Um, for me, I identify with it as an orientation. So that's it. My orientation allows me to live the polyamorous lifestyle, um, but yeah.
Speaker 6:So with your sex expertise, do you think people that are choosing it does that come from trauma? And it's not like a genuine immersal into the lifestyle and we've talked about the lifestyle in quotes before. But is it, you know? Oh, I've got these things going on inside my marriage. That's kind of pushing them to go to that. Or maybe is it like trauma in their past from not being able to explore their sexual side.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think it could be a variety of things, just like with monogamy. You could say the same thing with monogamous people, like are people in monogamy because they're just, it's compulsory, and like that's the expectation, and there's religious trauma and there's shame to not, shame to not explore it. So I think, for me, I think there's some people who are just drawn to the community aspect of polyamory, to the expansive way of like looking at it. And you know there's a term called ambiamorous, which means you can be, you could go either way, like I could be monogamous or I could be polyamorous, I don't really care, I could be monogamous or I could be polyamorous, I don't really care. And so usually those ambiamorous people tend to be more in the polyamorous lifestyle versus being like oriented polyamorous.
Speaker 3:I can tell you based on your question, if I were to answer that question. Jamie and I tried being polyamorous.
Speaker 6:You both sampled yeah, we both sampled the lifestyle back in 2010, um, and that's how we started I guess that's what I was trying to uh touch base on is the difference between people who this is. This is the life that I want to live and this is who I am to live this is who I am as a person versus someone who's really just into cheating.
Speaker 6:And how does that like? We understand that that's wrong and this is a emotional conversation that is built up between two people who are consenting. But is cheating also a lifestyle? And I don't say that to be disparaging, I just I like these snowballing thinking consperiously type things.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think that when you so one of the things I love about poly Okay, let me back up a little bit One of the I ask myself and I tell my clients to ask themselves, and anybody who listened to me to ask themselves this question am I doing this out of love or am I doing this out of fear? And for me, when I am living as a polyamorous woman, I try to as I pursue another relationship. For me it's just one I know other people are open to many relationships that is being motivated out of love, whereas if you are cheating, you're doing something out of deceit and dishonesty and that's based in fear. You're doing something out of deceit and dishonesty and that's based in fear, and so I think that that's a big difference in terms of there are people who just don't want to be monogamous, or they haven't worked through their issues and they have a fear of commitment and that prevents them from being monogamous, and so they engage in non-monogamous behavior.
Speaker 6:But that doesn't make them polyamorous. Well, and I think there's also, you know, cheating comes from a broken inside part of people that allow them to. You know hate, yeah, and you know self-destruct and all that kind of stuff. So I think that's a great way. I really like that way of lining it out. Are you doing this out of love or out of hate?
Speaker 3:How long did it take? How long did it take you, courtney, we may have talked last week, but how long did it take you from thought popping in your head? I might want to do this to anniversary dinner. Hey, I'm going to drop a bomb.
Speaker 5:Probably like a, a few months, probably three months, four months. I mean, we had always Okay, so let's back up. We had talked about very openly about normalizing, being attracted to other people. So we had discussed, yeah, it's normal to want to desire somebody else other than your partner sexually, and we would comment like, oh my gosh, she's beautiful, oh my gosh, she's hot, or whatever. But we had never like gone beyond that and so it wasn't super like crazy way out there, like to then bring it up and be like okay. So I would say probably, oh, three or four months. Um, yeah, my mind works really quickly.
Speaker 3:That's all right, though You're decisive. You said it yourself, like you are intentional in your thoughts and I think that's okay. You know, I'm guessing. I could be completely wrong. Nate, you're probably more introspective. You're going to take your time and think things through, am I right? Am I close? Oh, you are so right, so correct.
Speaker 5:yeah, I am an internal processor, for sure, internal processor which is okay, that's just your thing.
Speaker 1:So, um, how, how do people around you feel about it? Um, I don't know, do you you like your, your families?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so we, yeah, so everyone that is close to us. I mean, obviously we now have the YouTube channel and things like that, but before we had that, everyone in our family, our kids, knew that was a slow process that we didn't just like all of a sudden one day like oh, courtney's not monogamous and she has a boyfriend now.
Speaker 6:You didn't send out a mass text message.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that would have been so much easier right um, so we told, or Courtney told, I guess.
Speaker 4:Well, it was we, but it was mainly Courtney, because it's her, you know, her decision to tell people and I, of course, you know, support her when she wanted to. I think she had a lot of fear for telling people honestly because didn't want to be seen as abnormal or there's something wrong with her or something wrong with us. But she first told her sister and mom, um, and cause, they're, you know, very close and very supportive. And and then, ultimately, we told your brother and sister, my brother and sister-in-law, uh, that was about probably a year and a half after no, we told them right away, because it was when I was like yeah, so that's pretty quick.
Speaker 4:And then the kids.
Speaker 4:Actually we told a year later, about a year later so, and then your parents a couple months after that yes, and then my parents so and not, and just because you know, it was kind of the what just felt natural for us, um, and so we didn't kind of tell everybody all at once, it was just kind of like a slow process. And so how did everyone react? So Courtney's mom and sister great, no problem, awesome, awesome, supportive, no issues. My brother and sister-in-law a little bit of hesitancy, a little bit of concern, and most folks, when we tell them, are actually more concerned for me and how I'm doing than for how corbin was doing that's actually for everybody every single person they're trying to see if you're brainwashed
Speaker 4:or not yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, or if, like, I'm somehow tricked into it or suckered into it, or like I have no other choice, I'm trapped into this marriage and I have no other choice. And so, and they were hesitant, and then the kids were very supportive. They were actually more frustrated that Courtney hadn't told them earlier. We hadn't told them earlier because you know we have a very open relationship about, you know, sexuality and you know different orientations and different genders and feelings and feelings in our house, and they were actually frustrated that Courtney had hidden it for so long from them. Um, and my parents were just like, okay, great, all right. Um, you guys doing okay, and they're like yeah, and they're like okay, good, and then we don't really talk much anymore after that sometimes when they came to visit.
Speaker 5:That was kind of weird. Um, I'm a very like obviously I could talk about sex all day long to strangers and stuff. But my in-laws, my, my mother and father-in-law, who are so kind, they are very great, kind people. Um, it's I don't know how to like bring that topic up Like, hey, I'm going to go on a date, I'll be back in like an hour just for coffee. Real nice guy, real nice guy, you know like. So, like nate would tell them when, like a year ago, when I was in a relationship, they'd be like, oh, where's corny? She's like, oh well, she's in leon, like with her boyfriend, and they're like okay, you know, like just like no big deal.
Speaker 3:So if I were, if i- were part of the you know, hey, who took the news the worst lottery. I would have bet the house and everything on your parents hey, what are you doing, son, and do you? Is everything okay? What can we do? Get this under control, kind of thing. So to hear that they were just fine that they were, you know, I don't know supportive was the right word, but understanding I take understanding, say understanding yeah, yeah they really respect me.
Speaker 5:They really respect me and they must respect your marriage.
Speaker 3:That's what I would say they really do.
Speaker 5:They are. They're so so respective of that and like it's hard to argue with and I don't I don't think that longevity is indicative of successful, so like just because we've been married for 20 years doesn't mean it's successful or a good marriage, but that's something that they do really respect that we've worked really hard in our marriage to get to that place and so because of that they defaulted to. We trust you.
Speaker 1:And I mean, and you found a way that works for you guys, that makes you both happy, that works for your children, your children. You don't you didn't break up a home. You, um, you know you take care of your kids and, um, and you take care of each other. So I think that is.
Speaker 6:That is a big deal interesting I had some child related questions and again, if this isn't, if you guys don't want to talk about them on here, that's fine. I completely understand. How old are they to be able to understand this?
Speaker 5:so our, when we came out to them, they were 10, 12 and 14. Oh, I feel like even now they're almost 12, 14 and 16 dang interesting.
Speaker 3:And they and they were you. You guys have a pretty open communication situation in your house, so you know they, like Amanda likes to talk about emotional intelligence. It wasn't the first time. They were probably stepping over, you know what's the sexuality and? Society and all that stuff. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 5:Oh, absolutely no. It's interesting because their questions were all ethic based. They were like so, do you date other married people? Do their wives know that you're dating? Like, are they okay with it? How does dad feel about it? Um, do you date women or men? I mean, they were just really great questions.
Speaker 5:Not once was it about sex, and that's, I think, so often where adults' heads goes like oh my gosh, they're going to be thinking about you going to have sex with the hotel room with this guy, and like, yes, they do know when I do over. I'm like okay, well, I'll be home tomorrow. And they're like okay, we'll see you later, like on their video games, whatever. But all of their concerns have always been about honesty, since, like transparency, open communication, like I said, I don't date cheaters, and there are some people that do. They're like, hey, I don't care what happens in that relationship, like it's just between me and that person, but for me, I'm not okay with that, and so that's something that I was really proud to share with my kids and say, no, I don't date men whose spouses or partners don't know about it, and that's how we do it.
Speaker 3:How do you confirm that they know? Do you just pay attention to your conversations? And hey, you know. Or do you like send home a permission slip? How does that part work?
Speaker 1:That's such a great idea.
Speaker 5:95% of the men that I've dated although my therapist hates this are monogamous. So it is really hard for me to find actual polyamorous men Not polycurious, not non-monogamous, like legit polyamorous. And so what I have found? It's easier to find non-monogamous men, and their wives or partners are okay with them fucking around, but they're not okay with them falling in love. So for me that's an automatic deal breaker. For me, when you have emotional boundaries in your relationship, that's totally fine, but I'm not looking for that. So then I just opt out If you're in a don't ask, don't tell marriage.
Speaker 5:So again, it's an open marriage, but you can go and do whatever you want and he or she can go do whatever they want. But like you can go and do whatever you want and he or she can go do whatever they want, If it's that case I don't date either, because I want open transparency. I don't need to be best friends with your wife or your girlfriend or whatever, but I want them to know about me. I don't want you to feel like you have to like sneak off and like escape, to like go spend a weekend with me. Um, so those are questions that I ask in the very beginning. That shows me where the state of their relationship is.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 3:Huh, so I love the internet. Do you have a question? I have, of course I have a question. Okay, go ahead with your question.
Speaker 6:I have two pages of questions, some for her, some for Nate.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 6:So still on this kind of same line, and maybe this is just how me only seeing monogamous relationships, like how I can picture things, like Denny and I have always talked that our relationship comes first and our care for our kids comes second, because, you know, some point the kids are going to leave and then it's just us. How do you balance a hierarchy? Because I feel like there always has to be a hierarchy in relationships.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I mean Courtney's going to answer this, obviously, but she doesn't really like the hierarchy way of like thinking about it, although it's the only way I can think about it. So I try to say like that I'm her primary partner and then a secondary partner, which drives Courtney crazy. She blinked when you said it, so I I try to be so I try to say like that I'm her primary partner and then a secondary partner, which drives Courtney crazy.
Speaker 3:She blinked when you said it. You could tell there was almost a little eye roll there.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, just take a deep breath, but it's hard for me to define any other way, and so I think that may be part of my, like, monogamousness. I guess you know and thinking about it so, but for for us it still comes down to I guess you know, I'm thinking about it so, but for for us it still comes down to. I guess our relationship is kind of the core relationship, the central one, and then the kids, of course, are there, right, they're going to be there. That's part of the family. Like you're saying, they're sort of secondary, they're going to move on. We're trying to raise them as good kids and then they're going to hopefully leave and be successful in some way, and so, but yeah, so I guess Courtney likes to define it more as, I guess, a nesting partner. How do you like you want to explain to me?
Speaker 5:Yeah. So I'm not a fan of the whole hierarchy thing. I don't like somebody feeling like a second-class citizen because I don't want to feel like a second-class citizen, because I don't want to feel like a second-class citizen, I somehow matter less because I don't live with that person. So my kids matter, obviously, and I think in our brains it makes sense to like okay, you're number one, you're number two, number three, but I guess I see it more like a circle. I don't see my life like a ladder, I see it like a circle, like. I don't see my life like a ladder.
Speaker 6:I see it like a circle, okay.
Speaker 5:Does that?
Speaker 6:make sense? Yeah, it does, and I guess there's maybe for someone who isn't seeing it like. We don't have a favorite kid. I was. Everyone asked me. We have six kids and I say my favorite one is the dog. The dog is my favorite. None of them are my my favorite, but it's you know, you don't have a favorite kid, so why would you have a favorite partner you?
Speaker 3:can love them all equally but differently at the same time. I guess that makes sense to me. Well, absolutely yeah. But on the flip side, when a relationship is just starting, I'm guessing it's man brain that kind of thinks differently here. That's why nate and I, why Nate and I might. I too would look at a hierarchy versus the other and because in my opinion, that relationship has to grow some legs before I'm going to compare it to mine.
Speaker 6:Like it has to have the sustainability.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, there has to be some time.
Speaker 6:I think that's natural, but you still have to give it. If you don't give it a chance, the new relationship, if you don't give it a chance to grow legs and it's always secondary then it'll never grow legs.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 6:You're asking a bird to climb a tree.
Speaker 1:You couldn't do it. No, it's a fish Asking a bird to climb a tree. He'll just fly up there.
Speaker 6:Listen, you thought we met. How many employees were at the point?
Speaker 1:Okay, True, listen, you thought we met. How many employees were at the boy? Okay, true, I don't think you could ever do it. I could not Because you need to be.
Speaker 3:Central it.
Speaker 6:You need to have all of my attention.
Speaker 3:All of it. I could not, and I'm sure you know, I'm sure Nate had felt some of this too. I don't want to be in a competition, for I here's, I'm just gonna throw it out there. I would let's just use the sexual side of it. I don't want to worry that you know, whenever we're being amorous, intimate that you are comparing me to the other, or yeah, you'd be judging all right, go sit in the hallway or you would.
Speaker 3:You know, not only not comparing, but oh, I wish that he would do what mike does no, because he's gonna say don't worry, I'll get it Mike. Do you see what I'm talking about there, Nate? Do you understand where I'm going with that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I totally understand.
Speaker 4:I would say I'm a very confident person, so that helps out quite a bit and just who I am and what I do and everything, so that helps a lot. I have a lot of confidence in all areas of my life, so that helps a lot, like I have a lot of confidence in kind of all areas of my life, um, so that gets helpful. Um, but also because I don't, uh, I I realized initially that was a very great concern for me. So, you know, was this more just about Courtney wanting to go, you know, have sex with someone and then, you know, just replace me in some way or whatever else it was. But I've learned very quickly that it's much more about that for courtney. So that is a component and we talk about having courtney has safe sex and they do sti checks before they have sex, you know, and you bury your methods and things like that. So there's a lot of levels of trust there, um, but yeah, I think a lot of people do have that thought like it's just about sex and I understand.
Speaker 5:No, he means comparing, like he's afraid that like am I thinking about? Oh man, I wish you would do it Like this guy does it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's still sometimes in the background. I guess it's hard to get rid of that completely.
Speaker 5:But I think you can have that even with, like previous partners, like your ex-girlfriends, for you know, I guess the way I see it is like it all contributes to a better experience, like, are there certain things that Nate's better at than what other men that I've dated at? Yes, and vice versa, but it's a whole like total experience. It's not. I don't ever see it as a competition, I always see it as a collaboration.
Speaker 1:See, now I would see it as a competition because I'd be like, okay, so you said, there were some things I'm better at. Now tell me what those are. I want to know what they are.
Speaker 6:I have to be the best at all of the things, yeah.
Speaker 1:And what can I improve in? Because I will be number one, damn it.
Speaker 6:But I think that can be a benefit to a relationship if you have hey, I didn't know I liked this, but so-and-so did it and I super duper like it you should try it next time.
Speaker 3:Now I'm going to go on the other side of that, because usually you know, let's just pump the brakes here a little bit on, you know the topic we're on, and let's just talk about cheating for a second. Okay, ok, so if we talk about cheating and a relationship, you know I leave, I cheat on Amanda, I come home and then you're murdered, I get killed, I revive myself and come back and then I and then you know, as we're talking, I would assume, or let's just flip the script and you cheated on me and we're talking flipped the script and you cheated on me and we're talking, and one of the questions I always hear was was it just physical or was there emotion involved? And nine out of ten times people, for whatever reason, gain some sort of not pleasure's not the right word, but not not even close, no, not from so they feel better if it wasn't an emotional. It was all physical, and but for what we're talking about, it's a more emotional experience than it is physical. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 5:I mean I do value the physical Like I don't want to. I think that's something I struggle with because as a polyamorous woman, like we get, I get slut shamed, I get called really awful sexual names all of the time, and so sometimes I find myself downplaying that part of it because I want to be like it's more than just sex, like it is an emotional and intellectual connection, it's like a normal monogamous relationship. It's just not with only one person. But yeah, sex is a very important part of it too for me.
Speaker 3:Well then, forget everything.
Speaker 5:No, no, no wait listen, I, I, I think I know where you're going. Because it's interesting, because Nate is the opposite of what most men. He is actually prefers that I am in a love relationship with somebody and he is not afraid of me falling in love with another man, whereas a lot of them, like my friends, their spouses, like women friends and their husbands, they are afraid of them falling in love interest but I think that's more telling on and correct me if I'm wrong that's more telling on the partner's insecurities.
Speaker 6:So if in a you know, a monogamous relationship, the wife is decides to become part of the poly community and the husband's like, oh I'm worried she's gonna find a better husband than me, that's him telling on himself that he could have done better as a husband. He could have helped more with the kids, he could have helped more around the house, he could have put the video games away when she asked, and that's his insecurity being projected on her amen yeah, so, like I was gonna say a minute ago, we'll come back to questions.
Speaker 6:I shouldn't have just targeted men. On that I could go the other way.
Speaker 3:You always do you're a targeting woman um. So I found on the internet hold the vision therapycom and the reason.
Speaker 3:Well, I like doing this part, especially when we're talking to folks, because there's some good information in here. So the the the crux of this website and this article that I found is eight questions to ask when entering a polyamorous relationship, and I just wanted to run through these real quick. And did you do it? Did, did you guys talk about these questions and how important do you feel like they are? And, um, I just want your feedback.
Speaker 6:What's the real life experience versus what the internet tells?
Speaker 3:somebody's writing telling us to think so. Question number one what is my definition of support and what does our support system look like? Did you guys talk about that?
Speaker 4:Not that exact question. No, I mean I think we no, not specifically. You know, when we did marriage counseling for a good six to 12 months after this started and I think a lot of it was about making each other feel safe, and I guess that would a lot of it was about making each other feel safe and I guess that would be part of it was supporting each other where we were, and so we did talk a lot about that Not that exact question but for us it was more about safety and security with each other and who we were, and I guess that would be then supporting because that was one of the issues was initially was me sort of supporting Courtney in this sort of new lifestyle. So yeah.
Speaker 5:And I will add this kind of support and this has been one of our biggest struggles, and sometimes even with my last relationship that ended a month ago. When I get home from a date, I want to talk about it and not I respect that, it's not sexual stuff I want to be like oh my gosh, he like was so nice and like I don't know how. It's more about how I feel. I'm like I don't know, like he was wasn't as good looking as I thought he was, or like man his accent bugs me or like oh man, he was like. It's more of like complaining, processing and nate not always ready for that, and so that's like the only dance support dance we do is. Is he ready to receive my processing when I get home or does he need some more time before he's ready to reconnect with?
Speaker 6:me like reset your husband, your partner is your, your best friend, or you should be, to have a happy relationship. So who do you go to with stuff other than dating information? Your best friend, but that's hard for the best friend to hear at that moment. So I could see how that would be a challenge and you would need that support, but also he would need support of not doing it right away, processing it, yeah Right.
Speaker 5:So that's the support dance that we talk about, probably the most.
Speaker 3:Question number two. That one went just like I expected. Question number two what am I willing to share with my family, which we already kind of talked about? Here's the, here's the one that that I that I think, really gets this question. And can we reasonably set boundaries with our loved ones about our relationship?
Speaker 5:we haven't had to set boundaries like they, though. Here's the thing nobody really cares. Yeah, like I it honestly. Sometimes it hurts my feelings when people don't ask about my dating or like my relationships, okay, yeah.
Speaker 4:Because people have their own lives and their own struggles and that consumes them, you know, whether it's their job or their own families, their own relationships, their own kids, and so a lot of times we have found that like, yeah, they just don't really ask much and maybe it's just because they're not interested.
Speaker 6:Maybe it's because they don't care, I don't know, because it's uncomfortable for them to process. Maybe that makes me part of it. Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 5:Yeah but that sometimes that's and I have. I respect that. And there are other people and like I have a lot of really amazing girlfriends and a couple of guy friends that are just like I can get that support from them. But man, it is a struggle sometimes when somebody knows I'm in a relationship and they're not like hey, Courtney, how's your boyfriend doing? Or like hey, like how's that relationship going? Because that's a part of me and that's a part of my life and that's really when I'm in a relationship with somebody, like that's a big deal for me, Like that matters a lot, and so it's almost like we see you, but we don't see this part of you.
Speaker 3:Like they feel like it's taboo so they don't talk about it.
Speaker 6:Yeah, cause it's maybe cause it's still uncomfortable to them without it, without them saying it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 5:Or they don't know how to ask even, and so then sometimes I'll offer it and be like so, so-and-so and I are doing really good, or I'm going to go see them, and then they sometimes they'll follow up, but most of the time they just don't care, damn them.
Speaker 1:Do you find it more when Nate's around, that they don't ask? No, nope, they just don't ask.
Speaker 6:I had a question, I had a thought with that. Read that question again, the last one.
Speaker 3:Yeah. What am I willing to share with my family and what can we reasonably set boundaries with?
Speaker 6:Is that a line that you address with your potential boyfriends, on whether or not they have shared with their family their lifestyle?
Speaker 5:Oh, this is a point of contention for us. No, go ahead. No, no, oh, this is a point of contention first. No, go ahead. So I have tended to date men who don't tell their friends and family about me. Okay, and that is something that is really hard. And at first I was like, when I first, you know, got into this, I was like it's fine, I get it, I'm married, I'm older because I tend to date younger men, it's okay. And then the last six to nine months I've been like fuck that, I am tired of being somebody's secret. I want my boyfriend to be proud of me and you don't have to introduce me to your kids. The second date not by any means, but the fact that you have to hide me or you can't speak english or like call me and talk to me on the phone, because then your family's going to be like who are you speaking english to?
Speaker 6:like no no, I'm done with that yeah, that's what I, that's what I was saying, because that would be no different to me. That would be no different than being hidden from a wife, that's. It's the same thing if you are hidden from any aspect of your partner's. If you're hidden from any aspect of your partner's life, then you're a secret. You know you shouldn't.
Speaker 3:People aren't which makes you feel a particular way makes you feel secondary.
Speaker 6:Yeah, back to that tear it makes me feel like shit honestly.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's the word.
Speaker 5:It made me feel so awful. And if I didn't, I was okay. And I was like, oh, just, it's fine, like I get it. And now I'm like no, like, if you're not proud to be with me and it's funny how I will get men who be like, who wouldn't be proud to be with you, who I couldn't imagine somebody, and I was like, okay, let's play a game. I said so, so let's say. And then I give them these scenarios and they're like oh, oh, I don't. I don't know if I would uh, bring, like introduce you then to my family, and I'm like, okay, well, I guess we're done.
Speaker 1:Then yeah that's answering it. Well, that was easy yeah, now we know.
Speaker 3:Uh. Question number three how much emotional labor do I want to put forth Now to clarify emotional labor is the mental activity required to perform routine things necessary to maintain a household process or relationship.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so I'll start. That was a struggle at first, because I didn't want to put a lot of emotional labor, I think, into managing what I was struggling with.
Speaker 1:You know what I needed to work on, and so then we didn't get better, uh so I think, so, yeah, learn that um, and so I think that, once I started, to put in the work and we started putting the work.
Speaker 4:Then our relationship, you know, grew, you know, exponentially. Okay, how about you with?
Speaker 5:yeah I mean you, it is god. You have to really set some serious boundaries for the, because it is emotionally laborsome. Like I am, relationships are my jam, like I love them, I thrive off of them and um, but they also can be really draining, like I Nate will be like okay, maybe just take a little break. Or like go go somewhere by yourself for the night, because you are, you were tapped out, and not from just dating, but from like for their kids and my clients. And you know, and I respond to every message that I get in my in on TikTok, on Instagram, all the like I respond to every single message. And so, even though I love that and I love the community that I'm building, sometimes it can get really draining, sure, and so that also contributes to it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can imagine I was going to skip this next question because I felt like it was already there and then, as we were talking more, I thought no, I think it needs to be talked about Question number four. How much do I already know about being poly and what research do I need to do? And, more importantly, what research would my partner need to do?
Speaker 2:More importantly, what research?
Speaker 4:would my partner need to do? Oh, I think initially, when we first started this, or Courtney first started this, she sent me a lot of information. So books to read, podcasts to listen to so for me podcasts are a great way to do it because I go for walks or runs and so I can listen to them. Then the books were pretty good. Uh, our therapist had us work through some, um, you know, resources for non-monogamy and also resources for me to kind of understand like my core wounds, my core traumas as kids.
Speaker 5:But do you think there's more?
Speaker 4:that you? Oh man, I think there's, I think there is more. So I think that part of the reason why we started the YouTube channels was so that we would also do some work on ways to educate others and educate ourselves, because it almost forces you to go look for other resources and what's out there. The problem we found is there's not a lot of great resources for monopoly. So I think for poly, poly, there's quite a few, but for monopoly, so I think for poly, poly, there's, there's quite a few, uh, but for monopoly there's just not a lot of great things out there to how to work on it, what questions to ask, how to communicate. You know what do you want to consider? Even stuff like this checklist.
Speaker 3:It's just hard to find stuff like, let me tell you, it's out there, nate. It's just, every fucking time you type it it's monopoly and the game comes up and it drives me crazy trying to search them.
Speaker 5:So yeah, I will say too like and this is something I've been struggling with in the last few days. I haven't actually gotten a chance to talk to nate about it yet. Hey, we're talking about it right now.
Speaker 5:Right now, live on the show breaking news I know right, but I struggle with feeling connected to like the mainstream polyamory community because my I'm in a monopoly like.
Speaker 5:I feel like I'm in like a weird middle ground, like weird world, so and and because we live in germany, so like the poly community here if if there is one, I don't even know because they're, it's probably in german, um, and so I'm not connected to like my local. There are some friends here that um, I have that are polyamorous or non-monogamous, and but we don't like hang out and like talk about it usually because our other friends aren't, so it's I'm never in like a poly, only space, and so that's something that I feel pretty disconnected from and I struggle with even like certain creators and influencers online who are poly and my life just looks so different than theirs. Um, no, but I think I need to do a better job of connecting with the poly community and trying to like be just a different facet of it so that they can see like hey, like soccer mom, polly people exist too.
Speaker 3:And you know, and, and I think doing things like this, you know being on this podcast telling your story, the other ones you've been on your YouTube channel, which, oddly enough, your YouTube channel, um Nate, you seem to take more of the lead on that. Do you feel like you're kind of leading the youtube channel?
Speaker 4:I mean I, I like it. So again, it was his idea, it was my idea I was like are you okay? Like yeah, just think that courtney's story is so amazing. I mean in our story as well, but courtney's story is so amazing, and her journey they're like we just need to share it, and so I do push, you know, for it or as an advocate for it, um, and I love doing it so yeah, yeah, it was his idea for me to write my second book.
Speaker 5:he was like you need to share, like about our, like you need to share your journey, like people need to know that, like this is possible and like that families can be saved this way, and he was so passionate about starting. I mean, I'm much more used to being on camera and I don't mind it and it's fun for me. Creativity I love the people that I connect with online. But it was Nate who was really pushing the Monopoly Couple YouTube channel, because he just remembers how hard and how lonely we were in those first few months. Like it was awful. It was just we felt so broken and we felt so alone. And he was like I don't want other people to feel like that when they can work through it. And if they see us and see that like we're just your average, like parents, like yeah, we're highly educated and like professionals and we're involved and you know, but like we also live a non-traditional lifestyle and we make it work.
Speaker 3:So, nate, when, when she first drops this news, you guys are in a tough space and you're you're thinking man, I don't know where this is going from here, and she's sending you articles and podcasts, are you just instantly hitting delete in the beginning and moving on?
Speaker 4:I never asked you that. It's so funny, I think. Instead of that, I would just pass aggressive and I would just not listen to it for like a week or two. She said, hey, how was that podcast? I'd be like oh, I didn't listen to it and just stop the conversation. Yeah, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'll listen to it. I'm not ever. Yeah, this is a way to try to get some control back in my life, because I felt this sort of out of controlness at that point. You know like what was going to happen, and so I would just be like, nah, I didn't listen to it yet, I haven't gotten to it yet, I'm too busy, or whatever else.
Speaker 5:Yeah, but then he would listen to it or read it and then he would just poke holes in every single argument. Yeah, but like that's not our situation. Okay, yeah, but they talked about like he picked the one little thing out of there and I'd be like, yeah, but did you see the 95 other? He was like but the five percent, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so exhausted.
Speaker 1:But you know you can tell you're very supportive of court, supportive of courtney, and you're very passionate that she's happy and that that is awesome question number five how can we navigate attending events and family gatherings?
Speaker 3:and again, these are questions you might ask before entering. Is everyone comfortable spending time with each other?
Speaker 6:I think we've kind of talked about that you talked about your, your dinner table. What was it break it down for? Maybe for people to listen to that kitchen table versus garden party.
Speaker 3:And yeah, yeah, that's uh. So yeah, I don't think we need to spend a lot of time there.
Speaker 6:I think you've done well, and if you have breached the subject with your family and you've gone outside of those kind of boundaries and you set what you will talk about or you won't, I think that all becomes established in those other questions.
Speaker 3:Here's one that I have a question about how can I make time to prioritize multiple partners during the holidays? Have you?
Speaker 1:guys talked about that, the holidays anyway.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you'd bitch about having to go see your mom and your in-laws and coming here. Can you imagine if you had a whole other side?
Speaker 5:no, yeah, I mean it's, it's no really different than that, and so I will caveat with I've only so the last two christmases. I guess those are the biggest holidays, because I don't date Americans really, so I don't have to worry about Thanksgiving, since they don't celebrate it. The last two Christmases like my last, the one from a year ago he was Muslim, he didn't celebrate Christmas, so it wasn't that big of a deal and Nate invited him to come for New Year's. So that was the first time Nate was willing to meet him. He did live six and a half hours away, so he didn't come. Um, that's another story, it's in the book. And then this last time, with the boyfriend that I had over this last christmas and new year's, um, we also invited him for new year's and he chose his ex and his son moved back unexpectedly and so he chose to spend it with his son for New Year's, so he didn't spend it with us.
Speaker 3:Interesting.
Speaker 5:But it's definitely something that is super workable. We because we like don't live around family, our friends become our family essentially, and so it's not like, oh, mom's gonna be here and like, corny, you can't bring your boyfriend because like you were gonna offend the family, like I don't remember the last time I've spent a holiday with family, oh, wow, like it's usually just like. That's just the reality of our life. And so when you live there, I think that if my boyfriend and I were still together for next Christmas, he'd be invited, He'd probably come, hopefully.
Speaker 6:I think maybe this is something that we maybe are weird in that we have these big family gatherings when the rest of the world really doesn't. We're all the time trying to figure out how we have enough space and time for everybody to see families, even you know, scheduling, podcasting and stuff through the weekend. We struggle with scheduling. Maybe we're the weird ones in that, and everybody else has said that has the right way of looking at it.
Speaker 3:So another question what coping skills can one use to deal with potential stress, trauma triggers or big emotions they may feel in a poly relationship?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, wow, a lot of things.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I um, so I, you know my, like I said, my biggest you know thing was this insecurity.
Speaker 4:I think part of that was just sort of the idea of being alone and like not being enough.
Speaker 4:I think was my biggest thing Like I'm not enough, I'm not going to be enough. Courtney's going to find someone who is more enough than me, and so I think that working through that issue and just telling myself like I am enough and I'm going to you know we are going to be okay and I'm going to be okay, has been really helpful. So, even if it's just a mantra, and going through that but I've also worked through, you know, some of that with my own therapy and looking at your childhood and looking at my childhood wounds and just kind of like, again, I understand very much the like I am not perfect and I have a lot of work to do and a lot of work to grow, um, and so for me it's been about finding more of myself and dealing with my own issues and once I did that, then I felt confident that we were going to be okay because, I was becoming a better person, and then we were becoming better as well, so that's how I've dealt with it.
Speaker 4:I've actually dealt with it. Less about us and more about getting my own shit together has been really helpful, honestly, so I totally agree.
Speaker 5:I even I have an anxious attachment.
Speaker 5:So even when and one of the things that I have struggled with in past relationships um, not with Nate, interestingly enough, but with other men that I've dated is this like thinking like okay, like when is it going to end, like they're going to break up with me, like I am very hyper aware I grew up with a very emotionally unavailable dad, and so I was like hyper focused on his emotions and reacting to them, and so, because that's part of my job, which makes me good at my job is I would be very like scrutinizing their, the way they communicate, how they're texting me, like what they're saying, where they're not showing up, and so that would trigger a lot of anxiety in me.
Speaker 5:And so I had to do a lot of work on myself and really heal those wounds of being enough and feeling like, oh my gosh, I'm too much Like I'm. I'm like my dad couldn't be there to like be there for me emotionally. So that must mean I'm too much for any man in my life, and so the coping skills are really on my own, healing those wounds and then coming to the men in my life to say, okay, this is where I need you to support and how I can. You can add and contribute to my healing process.
Speaker 3:Interesting.
Speaker 6:I think that goes for all relationships. I mean, we've we've talked extensively on here about how you need to be whole as a person before you can go and try and give yourself to another person If you're just giving them a half and asking them to fix it. That's not how relationships work.
Speaker 1:I have to ask a question so your therapist, did your therapist understand polyamorous? Did you get like a therapist? That understood it, his or ours?
Speaker 2:Either one All of them.
Speaker 5:Yeah, because, because I was gonna ask that too yeah so thank god.
Speaker 4:I just want to say that mine did um, and so she was not polyamorous herself but dated someone who was polyamorous and found that it wasn't for her. Interestingly, it was very similar where she was monogamous but he was polyamorous and found that it wasn't for her. Interestingly, it was very similar where she was monogamous but he was polyamorous and they worked through all that. Like this is 10, 12 years ago and she's no longer with that person. She's married to somebody else now, but like they were in a long-term relationship and so she totally understood it was perfect where I was coming from, so that worked out great for me.
Speaker 5:It. That worked out great for me. It was amazing. And then our couples therapist. I went to graduate school with him and so, like we were trained in sexuality, so he. I don't know if he's actually poly, but he works with like predominantly non-monogamous individuals and couples. Ironically enough, I could not find a poly friendly therapist for myself. The first therapist that I went to she called it legalized cheating and I was like I'm sorry, what? What did you say? And it was really hard to find people who were actually understood it. It took me like months to find somebody that field.
Speaker 6:How can that possibly? Be, that's what I was gonna say. How incredible is it that you have to find a therapist that supports what you're trying to? Heal in yourself understanding it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like what they don't have to do with it but understanding it, you would think that it's yeah. Don't you consider that like part of your job seriously?
Speaker 5:you would think would think that, yeah, I kept. She kept calling it polygamy and I was like that it's not polygamy. Like I, yeah, and actually one of the biggest trolls I had on my Tik TOK account for a while their account was a therapy account, like they were a therapist, and I finally was like you know what, I'm tired of the shit. Like I pray that you do not give your clients this type of compassion. And then they stopped after that.
Speaker 3:I have learned through my various marriages that which one the most? Yes, a bad therapist or one that is one-sided or not careful can ruin everything. Yeah, and you're going there for help.
Speaker 6:And isn't that crazy. You go somewhere for help and then the person you're asking to help you don't know if they're really qualified to do it or not. That's what scares me about therapy. Or if they even give a shit to help you.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they just don't give a shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, last question. Last question on this what traditions are important? Are there new ones? You want to try? And it says polycule. I don't know what that means.
Speaker 5:To start, A polycule is when you have you and your partners, and maybe their partners.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 6:Like a double dating thing.
Speaker 3:So would there be and you'd actually mentioned Nate had actually mentioned, maybe if he were in it you guys could double date, or she mentioned that, yeah, so.
Speaker 5:So one of the things that I and I thought of this because Valentine's day is coming up, this and it makes me emotional because it was the first time that my part my other partner was a part of my like, actively a part of my me and nate and I felt like we were a team, like I really felt like we were a team is for valentine's day. We got the girls. We are two oldest, are our girls. We got them flowers for valentine's day. And then our son we got him I don't know something else, like chocolates or whatever, and it was from the three of us and that felt and like my boyfriend sent money and like contributed, and it felt like, oh, like we're a team, like it was really beautiful, like I, I am sad I don't get to do that this year I'm not gonna lie think for Courtney it's in.
Speaker 4:For us it's about trying to integrate that person I mean, it's not a media and it's slowly and trying to integrate them even if it's just with little acts of service or gifts or a car or something. That's what we try to do, at least slowly, and you know, and we kind of judge for our kids, like how much they want into that you know, know so it's not just like gifts, but it's not just like a person's gonna show up at the door randomly and be like all right, go do your laundry
Speaker 3:yeah, go clean your room.
Speaker 6:I don't think that's how that works so I wanted to ask you, nate, how do you deal with courtney's breakups? Obviously it's probably emotional for her, but how does that impact you emotionally too?
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I, you know, I it was challenging at first because I was, you know, still angry and frustrated, I think, and just but now, like I feel sadness when she's sad because I know that she is her complete self when she's with someone else and or, you know, has a boyfriend or is dating and and it's healthy and happy, and then when she doesn't have that, she's just not. It's just like, you know, I talk about it, we talk about it. You know, on the youtube channel where you know maybe she and I are, you know, make corny 80, you know who she is and and that other person gets her to the 95 plus percent. And so when she doesn't have that, it's like there's something missing, it's like a little bit is missing and and I'm sad for her because you know you want your partner to be happy and whole and healthy and who they are, and so it is emotional now when she's not, you know doing well or not dating someone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the emotional intelligence in your relationship is off the charts, by the way yeah it really is, congratulations oh yeah, thank you.
Speaker 5:When I told him about my last relationship, that I was thinking about ending it, he was like okay do you want me to talk you out of it?
Speaker 1:do you want me to?
Speaker 5:listen, do you like? What do you? What do you need? Because that's something that we get asked too is like can nate veto, can he be like? No, you can't date that guy, or you have to break up with him, or whatever.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've never thought about that question. Yeah, I got really excited.
Speaker 5:Yeah, no, the answer is he's never told me I can or can't date somebody. And at first I would have never asked for his opinion because I really didn't give a shit. I just wanted to do it for me. And now I value his opinion like too much, probably. I'm like, okay, are you sure, but like this issue? And he's like Courtney. I'm like, okay, are you sure, but are you but like this issue? And he's like corny, you're, you're like nitpicking, like this guy's, like he seems like a really good guy. And so this last one, he was really like he.
Speaker 5:The guy that I dated, the um, the bumble guy I have a story on my socials if you follow it, but nate met him. That was the first boyfriend or guy that nate had ever met. And so then, um, that was weird to be like okay, like you're meeting somebody who's important to me. And then, you know, a few weeks later we broke up and he was really sad. Like he was, like I'm I know that you're hurting like it makes me emotional still like I know that you're hurting and I knew that he was so good for you and for us, like, like, as our family, because he was so supportive of my marriage, my ex. He was super supportive of my marriage, of my business, of me as a mom, like he was just a really amazing guy and he was really bummed about that.
Speaker 3:That's incredible, that's incredible. David Gale came back in again with another comment. Oh, my David, that's incredible. Uh, david gale came back in again with another comment. Yeah, he says sorry to intrude again, but I'm sitting here in awe and amazement. I have lived longer, a longer life than all of you guys, but have come to the conclusion I haven't lived at all. So if you're looking for impact, I think you've made it yeah, so there you go, that's that's, that's it right there? Um, okay, so we're getting close.
Speaker 6:Like we've already kept them longer than I expected, I know last roll two go ahead can we talk about the kind of hate and comments and negativity that you get like what is, what's it sound like, what's it look like, how's it impact you guys?
Speaker 4:um, I would say it doesn't impact nate at all very little, I mean according to each other, you know kind of shielding me from it. I mean I know there's I'm sure there's comments about there about me being like a simp or a cuck or that I'm trapped in this relationship or I have no choice, or you know I've been brainwashed or whatever else it is. So I mean I know it exists, I know it's out there, but I know that corny filters you know some of that, both for herself as as well as for us, and there's stuff that she wants me to answer. Then you know I get a lot of answered. I answer, you know, comments, whatever else it is, but for the most part corny does most of the management.
Speaker 5:So yeah, I would say the ones. It's always from men. I've never gotten a hateful thing from a woman, not once really. Uh, I've gotten one message from a woman who said that she could see the despair in my eyes and so she hoped that I would find like god or something. And I was like, okay, like thanks. I appreciate that, um, but it's always men who, uh, assume that I have sex all of the time with anybody. Basically, that is breathing.
Speaker 5:I get called a whore, the C word, a hoe, like that. I'm a terrible mother that I am. I've dishonored God and my vows that I am. What's wrong with society? God and my vows, um, that I am. What's wrong with society? Um, it's, it's a lot like, and I, 95% of the time, like it doesn't bother me. I think the ones the one that sometimes will bother me and that's something that I'm still working on Like I'm not perfect and I'm definitely not perfect, um, um, is when somebody will say no one will ever, you'll never find another partner, like, no one will ever want to date you.
Speaker 3:That's not true um, I think you keep finding other partners actually, so I think that's wrong.
Speaker 5:Yes, and so, uh well, they say that will last. They're like nobody will. This will never last and or you'll never find somebody else who wants to date a married woman like you. And yeah, I don't get called ugly or fats, which I was really surprised about, but I get. They just think all I do is have sex all the time and then I'm flaunting my body and that I'm I'm embarrassing my husband by how I'm presenting myself on the internet and I said it's a good summary.
Speaker 3:Well, and you I mean you're so positive in your approach and I I always I have a problem because these two have taken a fair amount of fire over. Everybody's sure that we live in a throuple and everybody's sure that they know about the sex that the three of us have and know all of that no clue?
Speaker 1:no, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3:I would be more worried about those two than the three of us. So, but it's, it's people. I just don't understand why people can't just scroll on by if they're not interested and just let you live your life.
Speaker 3:And if you want to share it, and I know people will say, hey, you're making it public. So you know, take the good with the bad. But for fuck's sake, can we just let people live their life? And if you're trying to find the community, you're trying to create a community and if somebody doesn't like the content, move on past.
Speaker 3:You don't know your business anyway, you don't have to call names, you don't have to disparage, just just let people live in your, your feelings, my religious, political, you know, relationship, all of those, all of my views aren't going to change what you're doing. And I'm not saying I agree or disagree, I'm just saying so why would I stop and spend? The time to type something out. So and I'm not going to change anyone's your perspective, so why spend the time? And I'm just trying to hurt you if I do. Um, so that's, that's really.
Speaker 5:That's really what that's all they're trying to do is hurt, yeah, but I think that sorry go ahead I was, I was no, it's just to say, you know, I tell my kids this and actually my oldest reminded me of this the other day. She was like I know you tell me, mom, hurt people, hurt people. Yeah, and that's what it is like I'm a trigger, I'm a mirror for them, like I trigger something in them that causes them to lash out in a way. I'm not excusing their behavior, I'm definitely not but I know that 95% of the time that I'm like this isn't about me. There's something in me that I'm triggering in you, and it's really the issue that you have with yourself.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 6:That's the same point that I was just going to kind of touch on is that people who feel the need to respond to this are clearly someone who has been hurt, maybe by someone who's cheated on them extensively, and they cannot process or fathom how a happy relationship and how two people can be happy and have something that hurt them so severely. I think that's why Brayden's not here.
Speaker 3:That's that's kind of what I was. I think that's why Brayden's not here. That's kind of what I was. I think that's why Brayden isn't here. I think he lived the other side, where there was no communication, there was no collaboration.
Speaker 6:What was done out of that fear and that hurtfulness?
Speaker 3:If you don't collaborate, and you hide it, then it's much different. We have a follower, lune Lowe, l-u-n-e-l-o. What is this? She's asked what this is. First off, we're a podcast and my wife, my ex-wife and me and we have guests, courtney and Nate, and they are in a monopoly relationship and we're just learning more about that. So we're actually at the tail end of it now, but not the relationship. The relationship is fine. The podcast. We're at the tail end of it now, but, uh, not the relationship. The relationship is fine, the podcast. We're at the tail end of that, but uh, yeah, I, so I, I completely, um, can see but that's what I again I want to go back to.
Speaker 6:I think that is detrimental to our society because you know you guys have built inside your kids and we have to, we have to kind of. You know we can't fix us, but we can maybe fix the generations to come, of teaching them that it's okay for other people to be different from you and have different perspectives and thoughts and feelings in the way that they do their life and that's okay. Like you guys just have to move on. So no, we're not cheaters, hey, go listen to.
Speaker 3:You know the rest of it, and then you'll figure it out once this comes out, maybe you'll see a little different side to it. You know we all have different, different mindsets on this so speaking of. Okay, that was maybe a little aggressive. Our commenter is saying that now our time is running is out to the end. Would you guys mind sticking it out to save a couple of relationships, like what we did last week?
Speaker 5:yes, absolutely relationship advice that's right relationship advice.
Speaker 3:Are you guys ready? Yes, all right, here it is. I'm going to play our little sad intro and here we go.
Speaker 6:It's the most wonderful time of this goddamn podcast.
Speaker 1:Did you really think this was going to be a feel-good segment Are?
Speaker 6:you insane like me. Welcome to Relationship Advice with Ams and Jams. Well, you asked for our advice. We just hope you're ready for brutal honesty.
Speaker 3:And brutal it will be. Dear Ams and Jams, I am an EMT. This is important for context. I had a first date on a recent Saturday night. The person claimed to be disabled and unable to walk. By what he said in texts, he seemed legit. Everything checked out based on what he told me His house was decent, he seemed comfortable financially, etc.
Speaker 3:When I arrived at his house I was not liking what I was seeing, but I would give him a chance. I mean really rough outside does not mean rough inside, especially if you're disabled. Never judge a book by its cover. He told me to come in when I got there, but the door was locked. I knocked and his roommate let me in. All right, no big deal. What I did see of the house was just as rough as the outside.
Speaker 3:Then I got to his room. Yes, he was unable to walk. He had a prosthetic leg. That I didn't mind. Even him being in bed was not an issue. The first thing for me was that he didn't put on a shirt. This was to be a date I was raised. If you're going to feel like you were going, check that I was raised, that even if you feel like you are going to die. You put clothes on when someone comes over.
Speaker 3:There was no room to move around in his room due to the bed furniture and a large TV beside his bed. He had a large tv on his dresser that was also on. He gave me cash to get dinner and drinks for us. This is where it gets exciting. He said he was diabetic and wanted two large sweet teas from mcdonald's. As I was headed back into town, he texted me his order from the local mexican restaurant.
Speaker 3:All the way back into town I was trying to think and figure out how I could get out of this date. I placed our food order to go and waited for it to be ready, still trying to think on what to do. Once the food was ready, I went to mcdonald's to get his drinks. Here's where I feel bad, kind of. While I was in the drive-thru I checked who might who. The night lieutenant was EMT. Oh, that's right. Thankfully it was someone that I knew would help me. I text the supervisor asking him to text me in 20 minutes to report to base to get me out of this date. I agreed to work until 11 pm if he would do this.
Speaker 3:When I got to his house I took the food and my dates drink in the house. I could smell cigarette smoke as soon as I walked in the door. He was smoking in his room. I asked if it was menthol and he said yes. I told him I could not be around it because I have an allergy to it and could knock me out of work for three days, not four, not two. He did put the cigarette out right away. His profile said he never smoked and I don't date smokers. Right on time my supervisor called and said that they needed me to come in right now to handle overflow calls. I told him I would be there in 20, apologized to my date, took part of my dinner with me.
Speaker 6:She's got to eat before. She's got to eat before she got to work.
Speaker 3:I stopped at my house long enough to grab my pants and boots, just so you guys know. I did run overflow non-emergent calls. I did text the guy the next day, just a thing, just to say things would not work out between us and good luck in the future. He texted that it was fine by him. Amss and jams. Am I a horrible person for this?
Speaker 6:No. What was horrible is that you went through even the beginning stages of it. You walked up and said no and then, to appease him, continued.
Speaker 1:I would have left the money and everything and just left why?
Speaker 6:The whole thing is weird. It's all very weird. It feels like you were a free Uber. Uber eats instead of a date. And what I would say to you is be true to yourself, trust your instincts. If you say, hey, I don't think I'm going to like this, then you don't need an excuse from work. You don't need somebody to call you for you to get out of a date. Be like hey, not what I was thinking I was getting myself into, I'm really not interested in that and leave.
Speaker 3:that's how people end up in bad situations I think it's a little strange that she went ahead and got the, went ahead and got the mexican food and took some of it with her I'm telling you, I just would have set the money down on my way out the door and just not come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well then she said like she was.
Speaker 6:So I mean, I know, that's awful, but you were so worried about him being upset of your rejection that you didn't look out for yourself and you can't do that she really didn't look out for him either.
Speaker 3:I mean she got some man food she knew within seconds was nothing she should have just got out of the situation right away. You don't owe him anything. That's my point. She should have just walked away.
Speaker 1:We didn't do shit for this person.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Also we're not saving this relationship. We're moving on.
Speaker 6:Also Loon Lo, no Jams is not disabled. She's not real smart. I'm not sorry for calling you an idiot.
Speaker 1:It's just no.
Speaker 3:Think before you speak or type all right keyboard warriors, just hold on. She has an opinion okay I know, I'm just saying uh, dear ams, and jams I have a male co-worker I've been friends with for several years.
Speaker 3:We hang out side of work infrequently, maybe a drink every few months every few months, though we used to hang out a lot more years ago. It's never been romantic. That's hard to piece together. We planned to hang out Friday and I texted him hey, still in the office, don't think I'm going to be able to make it at a reasonable hour. Don't think I'm going to be able to make it at a reasonable hour.
Speaker 3:I got a text back in quotations. This is blank's girlfriend. Can you describe your relationship with him and why you're hanging out? Oh God, I didn't text back, but told him on Monday that I understand having a friend of the opposite sex isn't cool with everyone's partner and I'd prefer we don't hang out outside of work. If it's going to cause him relationship problems, we can talk if anything changes, but apparently I'm a dick for setting those boundaries. I've seen this happen several times before and I never want to be an issue in someone else's relationship. Ams and jams Am I more worried about this relationship than he is? Yes, should I feel like a dick?
Speaker 6:No, because you. He's upset because he was trying to start something with you and got called out for it. That's why the girlfriend is suspicious. I'm curious you were. You were being polite and be like hey, she's clearly uncomfortable with this. I'm not comfortable being a part of your drama I'm curious your thoughts on this.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, you want me to be quiet yeah, I mean, I think that he was keeping her secret from his girlfriend so just like, according to his life to be felt, kept secret from, uh, someone else's relationship. So you didn't want to be honest and open with his girlfriend, can't?
Speaker 5:no, that's not how you build relationships I think that I would have done which what the writer said, where she like opted out. I, that is exactly what I do Anytime I sense drama in. I was talking to this one guy who lived an hour away and then his partner sort of partner lived in Paris, so they're like 5 hours apart, they're not in an official relationship and he was talking about how he's like well, do you deal with jealousy? And I was like you guys aren't even together, like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like I feel I feel drama here. She's not even texting me. I'm going to go ahead and opt out.
Speaker 6:I'm not interested in being part of somebody's drama, absolutely not Not going to be the scapegoat and why your relationship failed.
Speaker 3:The only question I had about this one and jams you can chime in if you can not offend all of our watchers and listeners is should she have? Should she have went completely dark after the question she?
Speaker 6:didn't go completely dark.
Speaker 3:She said she didn't respond. Oh yeah, I would have. You would have said it, because that certainly looks.
Speaker 6:I have, I have, I have text.
Speaker 3:A certain way.
Speaker 6:Textless jams when she's not real fond of me, and there is no good that can come from texting with someone who has already had a. Oh like when I didn't like you Pre, yeah like when. I was breaking the rules and braiding Audrey's hair and things like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 6:There's no good that comes from that texting and you no because, then you're just going back and forth and back and forth and she and in a in a.
Speaker 6:I mean, I can only speak from a female perspective, I suppose. But a female that is reaching out to another female is looking to lay the blame on her instead of on the man, and the man is clearly the the common problem here. In this situation, so that she didn't want to be a part of the drama, she said hey, your partner's not okay with this. We're not talking anymore. That's, that's how you deal with it appropriately, I think yeah, I can, I can get behind that.
Speaker 3:Uh, did we help that relationship?
Speaker 6:uh, probably not the the relationship, but she wasn't doing anything, well it sounds like she's very in touch with her feelings.
Speaker 3:I think that Courtney would agree with that?
Speaker 6:Yeah, she clearly has some emotional maturity, she knows what's going on.
Speaker 3:Dear Ams and Jams. Last one I'm a fairly attractive, nearly 40-year-old woman. My name is Jamie Korn and I live in. I'm not 40.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 3:I've been dating in one form or another for 25 years, but never in my adult years have I been hit on in any way. Not to say that I want unsolicited messages or to be cat called, but never once have I been approached while out with friends sitting alone at a coffee shop, at my public facing work. Never once a polite DM no, meet cute. At the grocery store Nothing, I don't know what.
Speaker 6:meet cute means it's like a I think there's like an article that if you met somebody and then somebody reaches, out, oh, okay. Whatever Like a cute meeting story Okay.
Speaker 3:Every interaction that's turned into anything has been through dating apps or meeting through mutual friends. In my newly single role and my refusal to download another app, I'm just concerned and curious. Ams and jams, do men not do this anymore? Could it be a vibe that I give off denny or brayden or, in this case, denny or nate? Uh, any additional insight here?
Speaker 1:uh, you probably have resting bitch face and your vibe is not working.
Speaker 6:It's not that your vibe is not working. You are clearly a confident person, and men are intimidated by confident people.
Speaker 1:Or she has a resting bitch face and she just looks unpleasant.
Speaker 3:I think it could be maybe both. What do you think, Courtney?
Speaker 5:Yeah, there's a couple of things I rarely. So it depends People will tell me that they find me attractive. I rarely get hit on, Rarely get hit on and that shocks a lot of people, especially because they think again that I'm polyamorous, I just will have sex with anybody.
Speaker 5:But, when I'm in certain situations, when I've been at a club. Once I got hit on with like on a girl's night we were out drinking wine and like I had some guy flirt with me, like so it's possible but it's very uncommon and I don't really see it as being a correlation. Yeah, I would say that the energy you're giving off is probably pretty closed off. If you've been single off and on for 25 years, then you probably have some confidence or some fear of feeling like I'm desirable and actually people want to be in a relationship with me, and that insecurity is being put off subconsciously. So, yeah, and I think for men, for a lot of times they don't want to come off as the creep that's approaching women at the coffee shop.
Speaker 4:You're just going to be, yeah, and I think that for for men, for a lot of times they they don't want to come off as like the creep that's approaching women at the coffee shop, like that. You're just going to be, you know, told to leave them alone and then they're, you know, going to be laughed at later on, yeah, the girlfriends of this woman or whoever. So there just doesn't seem to be a lot of benefit, and so I think society has sort of put on men that like you're just kind of that creepy guy who goes up to the girl at the gym or the grocery store or wherever else, and there must be something wrong with you if you're like hitting on random women in the middle of some what's the matter?
Speaker 3:you loser. Why don't you use dating apps like the rest of the normal people?
Speaker 6:that's a super good point with the like, especially here in the states, the big me too movement that had a resurgence. What was that? Was it 20? It wasn't 2020, because that was covid, but it was around. I feel like it was in that same time frame, um, and where men were shamed for approaching women and saying, hey, I'd like to buy you a drink. So if, if we and women went through and said, oh, why do you think you have like, of course, men are going to stop approaching women, what do you think was going to happen? And that's just a product of our own, our society nonsense our society today makes.
Speaker 3:You know, nobody wants to be cat called. But here's. I've talked about this earlier. You know I'm down here. You want your hair pulled, you want to be punched you wanted all these women want all that stuff.
Speaker 6:But don't you dare whistle at me on the streets it's like but that's not give you permission, but that's why I'm saying there's so much that men, men are to be aware of and be cognizant of.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and there's so much pressure put on them of you know, be this masculine man but don't be too masculine. You have to be in touch with your feelings and you have to be balanced. You have to be this, but you know I still don't want you to be less than me or more less masculine than me Like, and I don't think that that's your men are. Men are taking a beating right now in society.
Speaker 3:And you get there, that they're not.
Speaker 6:Their feelings aren't really being taken into account, because women have been oppressed for a really long time, so now they're like, hey, listen to us, and we're forgetting that it's got to be balanced.
Speaker 3:Brittany Powell watching the podcast, says RBF for the week.
Speaker 6:I don't get hit on either. Denny says that I should be hit on all the time, that I could walk outside the door and say, hey, come have sex with me. And that's not how that works yeah.
Speaker 3:James wants to look at you and go you have RBF?
Speaker 1:I do have.
Speaker 6:RB'm not.
Speaker 3:I'm not real approachable courtney, let me ask you one last question before we wrap up. Yeah, because and maybe we touched on this last week did we talk about my theory that a man has to work for any affection any sexual encounter like, but a woman could walk outside their front door, stand on their porch and say I need to have sex, and within minutes somebody's there.
Speaker 5:And we didn't know, we didn't talk about that last time.
Speaker 3:Okay, I wasn't sure.
Speaker 6:No, this is just nonsense that you've said over the last like six months.
Speaker 3:It's so much easier for women to and I'm just talking about strictly a physical relationship right now.
Speaker 5:I'm not talking about you yes, and and here's the reason why because when a woman is in a position where she is like the one soliciting, saying like, hey, I will have sex, I want to have sex, I'll have sex with you, she's assessed her loss, potential loss. So men don't have to think about a potential pregnancy when they're like going, like fucking around. But women like evolutionarily, like in our little primitive brains, that is something we are always thinking about. And so if we are in a place where we are like proactively already on top of that and aware of it, we are much more likely to initiate and say, hey, I will be the one, and men don't have to like sort through that filter, whereas women have a lot more like physically, our safety, that we have to like consider and also pregnancy wise, yep.
Speaker 6:That's funny. I've never thought about that Like. It's like you're filtering. You're filtering men and women based off of you know. You go into the search, you're shopping and you want to filter. You only want to look at shoes. Well, you're only wanting to look at women who are not going to get pregnant accidentally, and men are like whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, it could be anything really.
Speaker 5:Um, but yes, studies actually do confirm that, thank you. There's been multiple studies where it shows women will go up to a guy and it's like a 71%, I think. If they asked for a one night, just a sexual encounter, that 71% of men said yes and it's dismal for women. Maybe 0, zero percent, five percent of when it's reversed.
Speaker 3:And really the other twenty nine percent didn't report correctly.
Speaker 6:They just didn't admit it. I just think I mean again, I don't. I've never been hit on, I've never been like sought after.
Speaker 3:Maybe you have been. I sought after you.
Speaker 6:You did. That doesn't count.
Speaker 3:I still do.
Speaker 6:No, I'm saying I just I've never felt like I had this vast peck of the litter. I suppose you could say, and not that, that's why it's all confidence baby, Maybe it's my. Rbf according to James.
Speaker 3:All right, here we go. Courtney, you'll probably remember love and hate. Nate. Be thinking about one thing you love and one thing you hate. Jams never knows, and we're going to start with her. It's time to talk about one thing I love.
Speaker 1:I loved this subject. Thank you for coming on here, both of you for coming back, because I had questions for Nate and just wanted to see where it went. So I absolutely love this conversation and I hate.
Speaker 3:Normally you don't struggle with things that you hate. I know, OK, I'm going to listen. I'm going to number two,412 for this hate.
Speaker 1:I hate my hair coming out. I shed all the time.
Speaker 3:That's because you're an animal Ams. One thing you love, one thing you hate.
Speaker 1:She was very anticlimactic. I know Well, I don't know what else.
Speaker 6:I struggle with what I love as well. I struggle with what I love as well. I hate people that say nonsense on the internet. This person was clearly just looking for a fight and they left because we weren't engaging with them in the fight, and I remember what I was going to say. I love intellectual growth and I love talking with people that have different views and different perspectives, and I eat that up, because it's the only way you grow as a person. Yes, and it makes me very happy.
Speaker 3:I agree, courtney, your turn.
Speaker 5:Gosh, I would say I love. There's so many things I love. I love this conversation. I love sharing this time with you guys. I love being in a place in my marriage where my husband is on a podcast, where he loves me and he believes in me and is so supportive of where I am and who I am, because for a really long time I would say it's so hard to know that you hate who I am and he didn't disagree with that for a long time and now to know that he doesn't hate, he loves me because of who I am, you can tell he's 100% on board, yeah.
Speaker 3:You can see it, you can see it.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I love and I hate our internet In the middle of nowhere, germany and our internet.
Speaker 3:That's good for meate your turn yeah, sure.
Speaker 4:So I would say that I love when I can educate or we can educate people, whether that's at my job, at work with, you know, patients and families, or on the podcast here or on our channel or wherever or according you know, being part of the education the court provides. And I hate when people judge someone, especially on the internet, for something like this, the way we talk about without ever knowing us, uh, you know, or knowing the true story or wanting to get more information. They just put some horrible comment on and then just sort of like walk away, like drop a bomb, and then yeah, yeah they call that swoop and poop at an old job I had yeah, david Gale said I love the fact I can listen to a podcast.
Speaker 1:I hate the fact I'm too old for Courtney she still loves you.
Speaker 2:She still loves you that's, that's.
Speaker 3:Uh, you can tell there's a relationship there. Hey, before I do my love and hate, where can we find your podcast, or not? Your podcast? Your youtube channel? Um, all of your socials, hit us with those so that we can find you, your books. When's the second one coming?
Speaker 5:up, so our YouTube channels at the Monopoly couples looks like Monopoly and my social media is married MILF diaries. I'm on TikTok and Instagram, and then my business one is Courtney Boyer coaching also on TikTok, instagram, linkedin. And then my first book is on Amazon or other online retailers called Not Tonight Honey, and my second book will be coming out later this year.
Speaker 3:Very excited to get that. We'll be purchasing the first book just so we can continue on with our education. So, yeah, I will tell you my love is, and once the music starts, hang out so we can chat at the end once it's over. But my love is and I usually don't allow this on the podcast but I love learning about these things. You know, we talked to so many different people. We've gotten to know so many great people. We've talked to, you know, parents with children that have, you know, horrible illnesses. We've talked to people that met on TikTok and got married. We've talked to just so many different people and not everything that we talk to folks about. I'm probably going to run out and do, but it's still fun to learn.
Speaker 3:Meet people like you that are in Germany, of all places. We found you through the internet, so I love the internet for that very reason. I love these microphones, I love the fact that we can sit down and just have a conversation and I think I'm as conservative as they come and I can tell you that. You know, life doesn't have to be this or that. There can be something in the middle. And you know you guys are living proof that life can. Life cannot look the same for everybody, happiness doesn't look the same for everybody and whatever that is and you're not out, you know, trying to force everybody to do it.
Speaker 6:I think that's why everything gets so struck.
Speaker 3:You're not doing this, so you're wrong. You're just doing what works for you and and I applaud you for it and I and I appreciate it. Um, what do I hate? I'm going to go with internet trolls, I agree. I hate them. Hate them Head over to. Thank God, cancer saved our divorce. There's more about us there. I'm gonna put links to everything about them in show notes and chico lives y'all, crazy bitch r-d-i-v-o-r-c, you gotta fight.
Speaker 3:Well, we're finally updating this part of the outro. Find us at ThankGodCancerSavedOurDivorcecom. Where else can they find us, Jamie?
Speaker 1:You can search on Facebook for Thank God, cancer Saved Our Divorce. You can find us on Twitter, instagram and TikTok. If you at TGC SOD, what's that?
Speaker 3:stand for Thank God, cancer Saved Our Divorce at TGC SOD. What's that stand for? Thank God, cancer saved our divorce, tgc SOD. Correct, that's weird. That actually kind of lines up it does. We'll take it, thanks.